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A French reader has passed to us an excerpt from the the Souvenirs de la Marquise de Créquy--fascinating memoirs. The Créquy family was an ilustrious French aristocratic family. Memoirs and family letters are of special interest to HBC because they may include comments helping us to understnd period fashion comventions. These memoirs were offered as an insider's view of court life, especially juicy gossip from the reigns of Louis XIV, XV, XVI, and Napoleon. They are, however, now believed to be forgeries written by Maurice Cousin de Courchamps in the early 19th century. Even so they continue to be of interest because they are so cleverly writen and they provide a lot of information about fashion and clothing conventions that are probably accurate in many details. She told that when men (and young men particulary) wore long dresses, they had to curtsy like women. I don’t understand at this time if she us talking about adults playing court games or young boys not yet breeched. The last sentence mentions young teenagers, but that sounds to us like an exageration. A French reader tells us, "She talks about both adults and boys. Regarding boys men she claims that they wore dresses until 13 or 14 years old. I believe like you that this is an exageration. The adults she talks are most judges (we say in French a 'man of long dress'
for a magistrate)." On the Souvenirs, the authenticity is uncertain. I believe they are not
completely apocryphal. They almost certainly date to the Napoleonic era mainly. But the general information on her time are I believe reliable."
The Créquy family was an ilustrious French aristocratic family.
A French reader has passed to us an excerpt from the the Souvenirs de la Marquise de Créquy--fascinating memoirs. Memoirs and family letters are of special interest to HBC because they may include comments helping us to understnd period fashion comventions. These memoirs were offered as an insider's view of court life, especially juicy gossip from the reigns of Louis XIV, XV, XVI, and Napoleon. They are, however, now believed to be forgeries written by Maurice Cousin de Courchamps in the early 19th century. Even so they continue to be of interest because they are so cleverly writen and they provide a lot of information about fashion and clothing conventions that are probably accurate in many details. A French reader writes, "On the Souvenirs, the authenticity is uncertain. I believe they are notcompletely apocryphal. They almost certainly date to the Napoleonic era mainly. But the general information on her time are I believe reliable."
The author told that when men (and young men particulary) wore long dresses, they had to curtsy like women. I don’t understand at this time if she us talking about adults playing court games or young boys not yet breeched. The last sentence mentions young teenagers, but that sounds to us like an exageration. A French reader tells us, "She talks about both adults and boys. Regarding boys men she claims that they wore dresses until 13 or 14 years old. I believe like you that this is an exageration. The adults she talks are most judges (we say in French a 'man of long dress'
for a magistrate)."
The excerpt read, "Je m'empresserai de vous dire en
courant que cette action d'aller saluer les juges était une étrange
cérémonie. Ceux-ci nous avaient attendus dans le cabinet de Saint-Louis,
afin de se trouver réunis pour recevoir nos salutations qu'ils nous
rendirent en défilant devant nous, et faisant à chacune et chacun de nous
une profonde révérence à la manière des femmes ; et je dois ajouter que la
coutume a toujours obligé les hommes de robe à saluer ainsi, quand ils se
trouvent en habit long. Il en est également pour les Chevaliers du
Saint-Esprit sous le manteau ; ce qui déterminait toujours les pères et
mères à faire entrer dans l'éducation des jeunes seigneurs de mon temps
l'exercice des révérences au plié (comme pour nous autres), et c'était en
expectative et prévision plus ou moins fondée pour l'obtention du collier de
l'ordre. On maintenait les garçons en jaquette longue aussi longtemps qu'on
pouvait, souvent jusqu'à l'âge de 13 ou 14 ans ; c'était suivant l'ennui
qu'ils en prenaient et les persécutions qui s'en suivaient de leur part ;
mais jusqu'à ce qu'ils fussent habillés en hommes, ils ne saluaient jamais
qu'au plié comme de petites filles."
That would translate as something like,
I will hasten to say to you that this action going to greet the judges was a strange ceremony. Those had awaited us in the Council Chamber of “ l’Ordre de Saint Louis “ in order to be joined together to receive our greetings that they returned to us while their procession past in front of us, and making with each lady and each genteman of us a deep curtsey alike at the manner of the ladies ; and I must add that the good manners ( l’étiquette ) obliged always the recently ennobled family to greet like this , when they are in formal dress . It is also for the Knights when they have wearing their ribbon of “ Ordre du Saint Esprit “ ; who always determined amoung the fathers and mothers to insert into the young lords education of my time the exercises of the formal curtsey (as for ourself), and it was in expectation and more or less founded in prospect for obtaining the ribbon of " Saint Esprit ". One maintained the boys in formal dress as a long time as one could to do ,often until the age of 13 or 14 years; it was according to the troubles that they had to endure and some constraints which were followed for them; but until they were dressed as men, never they greeted in formal curtsey like a little lady." A explanation about the last sentence in he text here--“but until they were dressed as men, never they greeted in formal curtsey like a little lady
That means , the little girls had the obligation to greet the first by a deeply curtsey , but not the little boys whom had to wait well-behaved ; as reply we had slightly to nod the personne , One didn’t shake the hand with the children .But the important or the old persons , were allowed to give to us a cares on our head.
This text is about the " L'Ordre du Saint Esprit " wich was the most prestigious knightly order since the reign of Henry III. The symbol of the order is the bright blue ribbon that many French monrchs atr pictured wearing across their chests. The text describes the investiture.
“L’Etiquette “ and the” Bonnes manières” were strict , and the litlle children from French nobility , Bourgeoisery , or great familly had to learn the rules as soon as he could understand .May be that seem a bit complicated , but not in fact .
After the first Restauration “ l’Etiquette “ declines but not the “ Bonnes manières “ still were in commun use in France and Austria during the 1950s , may be in others counties too .On a HBC page I still have developed this subjet .
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