Figure 4.--This looks like a photograph of Hitler Youth boys. HBC is not, however, positive. The photograph does not provide a good look at either the uniforms or the flags. We wonder if the boys might belong to a NAZI-sponsored youth groups in one of the occupied countries.

HBU has received images of some some youth organizations that we can not identify to be able to place in the site. In some cases we are not sure about the country, date, type of organzation, or other factors. It is often possible to identify Scout groups, but often not the country. As HBU has readers from all over the world. We are hopeing that readers will be able to identify some of thdse imagds. The task here is magnified by the fact that many counties had multiple Scout associations, often with very different uniforms. HBU will place those images here. Readers are encouraged to view these images and submit any insights that you might have. Even if only a small detail, your insights can be helpful.

Image 1

HBU has no information on the image here (figure 1). It almost certainly is British as it is a postcard print purchased in Britain. There are no badges or insignia with clues, but I assume he is a Cub or Scout. The boy appears to be wearing a Cub-like sweater, but he seems a bit old not to have eraned any badges yet. He wears a Scout hat--but without insignia. HBU would date it about 1915-20, but that is just a guess. A British contributor believes that it may be from the early days of Scouting, perhaps about 1910. Scouting rules had not yet been set in stone. Although not the official age, he may have attached himself to the nearest Scout troop before cub units were set up for the younger boys in 1916. In the same way, so many girls began setting up unofficial scout-type groups that Baden Powell had to ask his sister to start the guides in order to regularise the situation. Please let HBU know if you notice anything that can help date or identify this image or have any comments about the boys afiliation with Scouting.

Image 2

Many countries based their Cub uniforms on the origial English Wolf Cub uniform, green school cap and green sweaters or jersies. Thus it is often difficuklt identifing Cub photographs. The boys here wear a uniform similar to English Wolf Cubs, but they are not English. The caps are different. For example the yellow piping is vey thin. Also the emblem on the front is not right, at least for the modern cap. The jersies are also different. Rather than grey shorts and kneesocks, the boys wear brown cord shorts and kneesocks with wide green bands. We suspect the boys may be Italian. Belgium is another possibility.

Image 3

This is obviously some kind of Scout group. We thought at first it was a modern recreation of early Scouting. But we are more inclined to view it as a modern group with a traditional uniform. The boys wear broad-brimmed traditional Scout hats, grey shirts, neckerchiefs, brown cord shorts, and gey kneesocks with dark green bands. The shorts and kneesoks show that these Scouts are in the same association as the Cubs in image 2. I believe that the boys are Belgian, but are unsure as to just what association they belong. One reader reports, "It was the old uniform of the Flemish VVKS scouts. Now they have an uniform with green denim long shorts, brown shirts and again a green woolen sweater. Here, i think seeing it myself recently on their site, is a group still hanging on to the old uniform."

Image 4

A reader has sent HBC some images of a uniform she plans to sell as vintage clothes on E-bay. She wants to know if we can identify the youth group. We were confused by the garments which consisted of a poncho-type jacket and knicker pants. The lavel was in English. We are guessing it might be American because of the knicker pants, but there are a variety of problems in identifying the uniform. We thought it might be a Boy Scout unifotm because of the color and the knicker pants. The fact that it is a size 10, however, means tht it was not a Boy Scout uniform. The ebtry age for American Scouting until 1949 was 12 years. This was changed to 11 in 1949, but at this time knickers had been dropped from the program which means that American Boy Scout knickers were not made in size 10. Boys age 10 could participare in Cubs, but Cubs uniforms were a destinctive blue.

Image 5

At first glance this looks like a photograph of Hitler Youth boys. HBC is not, however, positive. The photograph does not provide a good look at either the uniforms or the flags, although neither the flags or the badges on the uniform appear to be Hitler Youth parphanelia. Neither of the flags are the red and white striped flag with the swastica of the Hitler Youth, although Hitler Youth boys also caired other flags and banners as well. We wonder if the boys might belong to a NAZI-sponsored youth groups in one of the occupied countries. We note that the boys wear ankle socks. Most photographs of Hitler Youth boys show them wearing kneesocks. A German reader comments, "I agree that the boys probably do not belong to the Hitlerjugend. They might be of another youth group that had to join the Hitlerjugend. But on the other hand all youth groups were disbanded and the members were absorbed into the Hitlerjugend. On one of the boys arms an eagle or falcon can be seen. Although the left flag can't be seen clearly, you can see a wing of the eagle or falcon. Thus these boys aren't belonging to the HJ, because they had a swastika as an emblem. And the bird of the Luftwaffe (German air force) had thiner and longer wings." HBC believes that the boys are more likely boys from a NAZI-approved youth group in one of the occupied countries such as the Netherlands. The Hitler Jugend absorbed most of the German youth movements in 1933. This photograph has more of a 1940-43 look to it than the early 1930s.

Image 6

Here we have a photograph which a HBU reader believes is a Hitler Youth (HJ) boy. There unfortunately is no provinance associated with the photograph. The photograph is unmarked in any way so all we have to go on is the image itself. It was bought in an antiques market in West London during 1999 as part of a job lot. Our reader reports, "You will see this is clearly an HJ boy with two paulettes." HBU agrees that it most likely is a HJ, but we are not entirely posiitive about this. He does appear to be wearing a brown HJ shirt. Positive identification is not possible because there are no badges and insignia on the boy's shirt.

Image 7

Here we are only guessing. We have a photograph of a group of German boys with giitars and other string instruments like mandolins, ukalele, and violins. Tbey look to be in a park. I'm nor sure about the date, but would guess about 1910. We think these boys may be Wandervogel boys. They are not wearing unifoems, but the images we have seen of Wandervogel suggest that the group was lack about uniforms. They were notable for hiking in the country and playing instruments, singing, dancing and reading poetry in country settings.

Image 8

This is an interesting World War II image which has us confused. It is being handled by a Ukranian dealer. This normaslly means that it is a photograph found on a captured or killed German soldier or Axis ally soldier involved in the Eastern front or war booty brought back to the Ukraine during the Soviet occupation of Germany. The boys pictured, however, are clearly not Hitler Youth boys, meaning that they are not Germans. We wonder if they might be members of nationalist youth organizations in NAZI occupied Europe. As far as we know, the NAZI authorities did not permit youth organizations to operate in the Ukraine during the German occupation (1941-43). NAZI authorities did permit these groups in the occupied countries of Western Europe (Belgium, Denmark, France, the Netherlands, and Norway). It seems to us that the children could be from any of those countries. Perhaps our European readers will have some insights here.

Image 9

Here we have a group of boys doing a gymnastict stunt. They are almost certainly German and the photograph must have been taken in the 1930s. We assume that it was taken in the early 1930s before the NAZI take over. They do not appear to be Hitler Youth boys because they have colored scarves, white shirts, and their shorts are not black. Germany before the NAZIs had a very active youth movement. In addition to the Hitler Youth and Boy Scouts there were many other youth groups with both political and relgious affliiastions. Presumbably these boys belong to one of those groups. Once the NAZIs took over, other youth groups were either banned or absorbed into the Hitler Youth. Most of this took place quickly, although the Catholic youth movement mintained its independence for a few years.