Figure 1.--Here we see the Standard 7 class at the Whitechurch School in 1921. I'm not sure where the school was located in New Zealand. Notice how the two boys in knickers were positgioned ion the end, apparently by the photographer to "ballance" the portrait. |
Private school boys like the boys here wore uniforms. Children in state primary schools did not. We note a fascinating interview from a New Zealand girl remembering the boys and girls at her primary school. Unfortunately the interview is not dated, but we believe it describes school life in the 1920s. There is informatioin on both the children the clothes wore as well as their lessons and interactions with the teachers and other children. Note as it is an interview, many of the sentences are no gramatical and there are many unknown words. We could attempt to guess what thoise words maeant and phrase the sentences better, but thought it best to keep in its original form.
This is an interview recorded with Mrs Jean Watt at her home at 42 Grandview Crescent in Opoho . It was recorded on the 24th of August 1990. Ok Mrs Watt today what I'd like to ask you about is your school days and this is primary school first. So I was wondering, could you tell me where you went to school.
Well I started school at at . Arthur Street School but I was nearly seven years old because my mother had been a teacher. and they decided it was a long way from Highgate down to Arthur Street. You had to walk down passed the the Awa you were too small . I was considered too small to go by myself on the tram. the cable cars- and err I started there and then we went to err to Naseby for some years. and then I came back and went to Kaikara School. Which I went right through and um and so how old were you when you went to Kaikara School
I was in standard err two. A Miss Callender was the teacher. [Laugh] Miss Polly Callender and we had two very noteworthy . senior ci err masters. there Mr Matheson and Mr Kilk. you may. Tony Kilk became a real legend in the Kaikara School . and he really taught us literature. he was marvellous at teaching literature. I still remember things that we learned but he was. he lived on his reputation because he was so strict that everyone went into his class prepared to behave and you sat up un. you err wer didn't talk out of your turn and he had err a little museum and if you did certain err . reached a certain standard with your homework you were allowed to put an exhibit in his little museum and what sort of things did he have in the museum
He had all sorts of interesting things. but I don't know what's happened to it now. it since the school when the new school was built. it seemed to disappear. but he . it err everyone. the first girl in the class the one who came top in the class and the sen the boy that was the err top. were each put an exercise and you were allowed to decorate the heading to it. with old English lettering or whatever you. you had to do a specimen and if it met with his approval you were allowed to put it in the. in the honours book as he called it. I don't know what's happened to that . I don't know. several people have asked me if I knew what had happened to the honours book that used to be in Tiny Kilk's Museum and did you put things in the honours book
I was put one exercise. I did old old English lettering. for the heading with flourishes and and err colour. Took hours to do it but it was fun and so did he work on a kind of system of rewards to yes he did and if you were. If you were very naughty you were if you did something that was naughty or bad-manners he'd send you out into the back corridor. he never gave the. he had a strap but he never administered it in front of the class. it was too great a disgrace so was that quite was he quite unusual for teachers then.
He was at that time because they were . they. well I didn't encounter any really err ones that used the strap frequently. but you did get. a ss a clip on the hands sometimes if you'd been err deliberately flouted the roof rule or something like that, but he his reputation was such that you went into the class prepared to behave and what about the museum did you ever get to put anything in that err yes. My mother had. Um she'd had an aunt who was an island. who was err a native of one of the islands and she'd sent her some king bird of paradise. which she was . one of the chieftain's daughters and she was allowed to go and err . shoot. they had to be shot with a bow and arrow. and she sent mother a little. a bird of paradise and I was allowed to give this. to Mr Kilk's museum
And what does the bird of paradise look like. what colour was it
Oh, it was beautiful. it had.it ah the the used to wear the osrey err feathers in their hats. women in those days and it was much sort after by milliners . to trim hats- they had long flowing feathers. and the king bird was a little red bird. bright scarlet. at least I I was always told it was the king bird of paradise. but it was much smaller than the others. the others were more multi-coloured but quite spectacular you know and bronze and white feathers and a a err - trailing tail that looked that looked like a bridal train or a . used to float behind them. in the wild
Oh they sound beautiful. I think I might have read about them or something like that
Yes and you said it was quite a long way to get to Arthur Street school
Oh no we . we lived in the top of Roslyn.we I thought it was a long way it was right down the hill. and it was . it was quite a walk down to Athur Street school was where it is still and so what was Arthur Street school like compared to the Kaikara school. was it as good it was. it was a level walk. we moved further along Highgate and Kaikara school was much closer- and it was a level walk along. to err Stuart Street you see. the cable car came up and across Stuart Street then dipped down the hill.
And how would it take you to get to the Kaikara school.
Oh about qua quarter of an hour 20 minutes walking. no you didn't waste time.
What, you didn't dawdle along the way or anything.
No. Not really- well I had things to do at home and w I had music practice to do un. so I liked to leave soon soon after half past eight to get along by nine it was comfortable. you met up with your friends on the way and had a time for a bit of a gossip and I can remember the smell of Lawrenson's bread vans being loaded as we went along and the gorgeous smell they used to come round to the door with bread in a basket covered with canvas. and they were brought this . the baker brought these um. this bag. this basket to the back door and you decided. you chose which loaf you wanted . the barracuta or a split-pan or. a brown or a bermaline. and the smell was gorgeous in the mornings. especially in the winter as you went along.
Did they come round every day
[unclear] as far as I know they came around . they may not covered certain streets every day. there were. every day they were loading their carts. and they were horse-drawn . carts with a big canvas hood at the back and the bread was all kept. and they used to be steaming. the loaves would be steaming in the frosty mornings as they were
And did they ever give you any or anything
I don't remember that. but they they had a little err. we used to go and buy cinnamon bars at the shop. you got two cinnamon bars for a penny . and a chocolate fish was a penny but that was treats you know if we wanted to . t ake your turn at shouting. for your particular friends
And who were your particular friends
Err. err. there was quite a little group went along there. there was the girl Margaret McCara who I still see she's living at Tauranga now. we were friends at school and there were various other ones. there was a girl called Else Pringle and Una Fery
And how do you spell her last name
Eff eee arr why [F-E-R-Y]
Oh that's quite unusual isn't it?
It is. yes. in fact I have. I've kept in touch with her. I've met her at various things. at the Victoria League I think was the last time - um. and of course there were boys as . Can Canon Miller was in my class. there was mixed boys and girls. of course. and the err. who else. boys' names I've forgotten the boys' names. but I remember Douglas Miller. and we. funnily enough . we were I was visiting a friend. in the hospital. a couple of years back. and he was there. he was Dean at the at the time. Dean of St Paul's and we both started to remembering. poetry we'd learnt at Mr Kilk's class and we were both amazed at how much we err still remembered. we could prompt each other
Do you remember some now to tell me
Ode to a Nightingale was one. and the Daffodils and [telephone rings] yes
so you learnt stuff like um Wordsworth an ...
Yes and a a Keats . Season of M Seasons of Mists and me Ode to Autumn . Season of mists and mellow fruitfulness. close bosomed friend of maturing sun. conspiring with him how to load and bless with fruit the ground the fat sheaves run. to bend with apples the lost cottage trees and fill all fruit with ripeness to the core. to swell the gourd and pump the hazel shell with a sweet kernel. to set budding more and more still flowers for the bees until they thought warm days would never cease for summer had oer brimmed their clammy cells [laugh] I can still remember it
That's lovely. he must have been a good teacher {if you} ...
{He} was a good teacher. mmm. he was a really good teacher. and he had a real love of literature himself mmm
Did he just teach literature or did he teach other subjects as well
No he took the whole standard five. standard five he was in charge of standard five. and he was there for years. he was an institution at Kaikara. he and Mr Matheson who was. he was the one that taught taught us addition. in the sixth standard . every morning there was a long tot. in thousands of pounds shillings and pence. and you had to do this until you could rattle it ov do it quite fast. every morning it was the first thing you did was the long tot.
And how did you feel about that
Well we thought it was boring but it. it was good training . I can find now if I go into shops some of the girls reaching for the calculator and err I find I can do it in my head quite quickly [laugh]
So do you tell them
We had English . and err we called it arithmetic. geography. history. Mr err Matheson was quite good at history too and also he was um very fond of music. and he used to r run the err they had a pipe and drum band at Kaikara School at that time. and there were gus there was a slot in the competitions for school bands and they were the champion bands- and that they were really quite good. we always assembled in the outside in the playground to march into school in the in your various rows according to your class. and the err percussion group always marched us into school. there was a triangle and a kettle drum and a ba a big bass drum. and the what was the other one . a cymbol - and they did just a rythm thing. but we always marched into school to. this band
Was it only the boys who were in the pipe and drum band
Yes. they didn't take females. at least I don't know whether nobody pressured . to get in. but he had also had a goo a good singing group. we had singing. and he was quite . err quite a good teacherr of group singing- we used to enjoy it. singing class
And what sort of songs would you sing in it
Err. oh a lo a lot of old folk songs and rounds un part-songs. there wasn't so much pop music although we did learn some of the popular tunes too.
And what were the popular tunes of the time.
Oh Way Down Upon the Swanny River. and there were some patriotic war songs err during the war there were just of hand I can't remember the. But if I heard them I'd, I'd recognise what they were.
Were they things like It's a Long Way To Tipperary
Yes. things like that- although we more than that um we'd sing it perhaps in parts. Way Down Upon the Swanny River and things like that- some Negro spirituals.
And I was just going to ask about um geography. what sort of things did you do for that?
Maps. we we'd and we had to learn lists of exports from different countries. I thought those were boring . we had to to learn the the ah where the country was and you had to be able to . they'd have a questionnaire around it and you had to you'd have questions shot at you and you had to say what that country exported. sugar molasses rum from some of the West Indian islands [laugh] and cotton and that sort of thing. and there was quite a bit of map drawing . and there was drawing and art too
And did you. what sort of things did you do in art
Oh you were something was put up and you had to try and sketch it you know it was. it wasn't self expression like they do nowadays. you did err proper drawings . you know what I mean [laugh] they had to look like . what they.were it wasn't the nearly the free art they do now at school
And did they put up the drawings around the classroom were there any things on the walls
Oh yes. there were. there were things. yyy the best ones were put up and exhibited - but I don't remember the walls being so covered with things. there were big maps pulled down over the walls quite often
Were they sort of maps for geography
Yes. mmm. although we all had our own atlases - there was plenty of homework. in those always had err. something to do at night
And so how many hou how long would you spend on homework. would it be half an hour or
Oh it was more than that sometimes. especially if you had an exercise to do and you err. they'd call it a project now I suppose. they used to call it exer an exercise. and usually had one of those a night . sometimes it was a sum to work it out. and sometimes it was a little paragraph about some local or err. news that was hitting the headlines. just various things . but there the teachers really taught you how to work .
And what about other things like sewing did you learn that.
Not so much in standard six. the boys had woodwork. and we had cooking. the girls had there was a um a cooking class which . was well you made various . you took an egg or something like that you see. and you. but there was . cooking and woodwork those were. and nobody. none of the boys took cooking and none of the girls took woodwork . which I think is a great improvement nowadays.
And did you enjoy the cooking class.
Oh it was fun- we quite enjoyed making ah various things. and we always had a a party at the end of the year which you made things for. you'd make sweets and perhaps a cake. you'd do a meal or a dish for a meal. and then you could take it home you see. you took the the exp there were basic ingredients provided. but the you were sometimes asked to take an egg or something like that.
And did you actually take the food home or did you eat it before you got home
It depended. sometimes it got all the way home. sometimes it didn't [laugh] . you were supposed to take it home. you had your own little pie dish. everyone had to have a little or small little what they called a pie-dish. and you sometimes if it was something a bit sloppy it was cooked in that and you took it home. if it was a cakey thing that was alright. they u the boys used to hang around to get bits if they they'd ask what it was what did you bake today [laugh]
And did you give them to the boys
Oh some. yes you'd give them to favoured boys
Who were your favoured boys?
Oh I wouldn't like to say now. but some of the sometimes some were a little less obnoxious than others. [Laugh] Boys were a lower order.
So did you have much contact between boys and girls
You didn't play in the same playground. the boys played different sorts of games. we the girls did skipping. the boys it was sissy until somebody said that was the main exercise in the navy because they couldn't do anything else. but the boys they had a different playground. and they used to play policies and robbers and the girls ud oh sometimes get into huddles and just talk un. skipping was one of the favourite things. the girls used to join in marbles sometimes
And did you play marbles
I wasn't very good at marbles. but we used to play marbles. my brother and I used to play marbles at home
And how how abouts did you play marbles.
How did we play it?
Yes sorry how did you play marbles.
You had so many what we called tors which were the big glass ones and they were the the ah and then you had little clay [unclear] things which were called stinkies [laugh] and you the big one as I remember was put in the . you drew a circle on the. on the playground with chalk and the big one was put in the circle and then you took it in turns to shoot - err to see if you could to have so many sho . I forget how stinkies were not worth as much as a big tor. and you'd sh you'd take it in turns and try an shoot the other ones out of the ring. and if you could shoot certain number out that was your marble. you could. your bag of marbles varied in size. from time to time according to your skill. or luck
And how big was your bag of marbles?
Oh it was varied.
And what's this tor is that tee oh arr [T-O-R].
They called tee oh arr [T-O-R] I think they were called tee of arr ees.[T-O-R-E] they might have been tee oh arr [T-O-R]. but that was a glass marble with a spun class inside it was a a special one that worth ten stinkies I think it was - and you could swop them over you see. you could . if you had a bag full of stinkies and wanted a tor you could do a deal with somebody else - the boys played marbles too and tops. tops were in marbles were out. something something kicken about
So tops are in marbles are out
Yes. The season was definitely. There was a season for tops. and then. there was a season for marbles. but when you came to the end of the marble season the boys used to .ah there was a quite legitimate to run through the marble pad and kick it. kick it all to glory you see . it was a free for all picking up the marbles- made life exciting
Oh, it would and and how did the girls play with spinning tops as well.
Yes. Some of them - the girls were not quite as . the the skipping was more the girls .err. though we used to do all sorts of games with skipping. you'd ru. ladybird ladybird fly away home. ladybird ladybird touch the ground ladybird ladybird turn around. and you had at least two people turning the rope and you had to do it without tripping until and um then the various jingles. ladybird ladybird touch your head. and you to do what they said you see. and ladybird ladybird show your foot and then you ran out. ladybird ladybird take your hoof [laugh] as they were calling the rope you see. It was a a sort of rhythmic game. Everybody else was chanting.
Must have been quite skilled to do all that.
It was. Yes, there some that were much better skippers than others . and then of course there was solo skipping too. those were the ah um games that you could err just use to um an ordinary size skipping rope. and you could twi turn your. do cross-ways to get going through the. and swingy . you do some quite err. quite err you know. quite err. get a group doing this fancy skipping. it was quite attractive to watch
And were how were you at skipping were you good at it.
I quite liked it cos I had a fairly good sense of [bell ringing]{ryhthm . I think y the ones that didn't have a sense of them found it a bit difficult . oh we used to have ball ga throwing too. where you threw the ball behind your back} and it was quite good exercise I suppose.. caught them some were better at that than others
Was oh was that your clock there?
That was the clock . will that matter
Oh no. I just I I only I just wondered what it was so - and what about other rhymes for skipping you know apart from the ladybird one. do you remember other ones
Skipping?
Other skipping rhymes.
Oh um ----- I need somebody who went to school with me----not just off-hand. I'd probably remember them in the middle of the night
I know that um . people used to do ones and they'd go pepper salt mustard
Oh, yes salt mustard ginger pepper. That was the speed of the rope. When you did pepper the rope went round fairly fast and you were jumping hard. And then you there was ladybird. No it was um salt mustard ginger pepper. Salt was reasonably slow. and mustard was a little faster .. it was the turners the you had ah someone at each end turning the rope you see. that was with the long rope
And with the long rope. Was that a special rope or was it two tied together
No it was um err a special . there was a long rope and then ther the one with that you did skipping exercises with that was a short one with little wooden handles. but the long rope you could use anything a bit of clothes line or anything like that - but it wasn't so nice if you got hit with it
Did the pe were there any accidents like people getting tangled up and things
Not often. Sometimes you got a skinned knee . it was usually because you'd tripped . the [tape speeds up and volume decreases]{the rhyme was ladybird ladybird touch the ground. Ladybird ladybird turn around}
And how did you play tig?
You'd probably err have err as far as I remember you ge ge have a leader and they'd pick a team and then you would run in turn and touch . you had to touch the next one.and they then it was their turn to run. It was quite a . a reasonable way of getting some good ex good exercise and some fun as well. That was play tig
And was it an asphalt playground?
Yes .we there was no grass playgrounds as I remember they were all asphalt. But I had a little nephew out from Scotland. He's a great nephew and last year and he went to school with Andrew up in Hawkes Bay. And he thought it was beaut out here [unclear] had so much perlay ground[laugh] they have a very sh we had quite reasonable space to do it in but he was very en taken with the size of the playground. That you had he . he didn't lose his Scottish accent either when he was here
So. So were they quite big compared with England do you think?
They must have been . although certainly he was they were still he was commenting on the. So much room.
>p>And what about um . did you have any sort of playground equipment like bars or anything to play with.
See-saws were bef forbidden. Of course there wasn't the e it would have taken too much area and people were apt to get hurt on see-saws - I don't remember the playground. There was one teacher wandering around just to keep an eye on things but I don't remember very strict supervision. It might have been stricter if we we'd ah done untoward things. We might have found out more but we had fairly. We 'd I I always went home for lunch so there wasn't a great deal of time there was just the mid-morning break and the afternoon break we did play. And there was really a a time just to get a breath of fresh air
And how long was the interval was it about half an hour
Oh no not as long as that . ten minutes . was the or even there might be only a five minute break depending what you were doing. But there was always a break. And of course you. I don't remember. I think we didn't on wet mornings we just lined up outside the classroom - but um every fine morning you had to sort of parade into school
And did you have a flag raising?
Yes - that couldn't have made much impression cos I. But I remember them having it - and you all sat at long desks. And there was the people at the end had to pull the forms. You were all on a form. And it was pulled if you were going to do writing it was forms in you'd do it by numbers the two end ones stood out and then everyone stood up [laugh] and the form was picked up at each end . and put underneath you and you sat down again
So was everything done by instruction. Did they say desks up for?
Yes- we didn't err. we had just one long desk there . at highschool it was rather different you had um. Individual desks with seats that turned up. And they used to make a clatter and the thing was to get . to turn turn up your seat .and everybody do it together and made a real worthy clatter [laugh]
So was that sort of no-one minded if you made a clatter doing that?
Oh. It was it was not. ah If you if you went over the edge with it if you did it more than once at a time you know if you sat down and did it . err you'd be reprimanded but if it was just part of the routine. As you left the room everybody had to stand up you see and if the seat tipped back. In the old desks and you had a desk in front of you with a lid.
And did and one of the other things I was interested about is um I remember people telling me that classrooms used to be very cold
Oh, they were. There was a fire in the uh we always thought it was most unfair cos you were graded according to your work . and the ones that were reasonably good were up at the back of the classroom . it was on a sloping so that the teacher could . and the fire was down behind the teacher's table . and there were naughty ones were under underneath the eye of the teacher . in the front row and they got all the heat - from the fire the back the ones at the back froze
Oh, so.
Used to get chilblains on the your hand on the desk I always wore mittens in the winter because on the cold desk your hands would get very cold.
And did your feet get cold as well
Well I think that perhaps the g the break warmed up our feet we had a good walk to school I don't remember being troubled with cold feet for as much as cold hands
And did you get to did they get you to stand in front of the heater when it the fire when it was very cold
It was rather a disgrace to have to come out and stand in front. You were sort of it was a reprimand when you [laugh] when you were out in front un - some of them used to play to the gallery . few of them you know would be quite good at it, if the teacher wasn't watching.
What would they do?
Oh they'd do make grimaces or something like that or imitate the teacher and mime.
And what sort of ways I mean did were people punished.
Strap was the ultimate but I don't remember getting the strap more than - I think it was a very gentle pat . but it was the disgrace of it - that was the worst part . and some teachers were much handier with the strap than others - the men teachers didn't ah strap the girls . Mr Kilk and Mr Matheson never strapped the girls. The boys got it sometimes.
... - master if you were sent that was the worst than getting the strap from him but that was something very bad . misdemeanor to be sent to the office
I don't suppose were you sent to the office ever
n't think I was. No I don't remember - it was only for something really . I don't really remember it happening very often.
Did people get into trouble much do you remember anyone?
No I wasn't in a gr . there were little groups that seemed to be always in hot water . but I don't we were too busy living err we had to be home with within a certain time . if we weren't home from school by a certain time. There was err questions were asked at home.n Wwe were given a reasonable time to get home.
So you never had time to hang around after school,
No, no. You could go they had a library or they perhaps at the young helpers' league which was err Dr Bernardoes' they'd have err perhaps a little function after school but then that was known. You warned your parents that you might be late, a bit later.
And what did you do for Dr Bernardoes'.
We were each had little boxes and I remember once running a little library. Err they paid made out a list of books that I had and they paid a penny and raised money for it.
And was this part of the school or this somewhere else.
This err this err was it was through the school . it was a teacher who had a pet err . if the teacher was interested in something like Dr Berdardoes' homes or . young helpers' league.
And what was the young helpers' league.
That was a charitable thing I've just forgotten . what it was for - they used to have an annual party at Christmas [ laugh] my brother once [laugh] getting dressed for church on Sunday . and they his fa my father was tying his tie for him [laugh] Bob put his hand in his pocket and pulled out a cream bun which he hadn't been able to manage at the young helpers' league party [laugh] he proceeded to consume it [laugh] after it ah having spent a Saturday in his suit pocket
And he didn't have any ill-effects from that?
No. His suit did.
So was it quite a feast at this um ...
Ohh it was the annual party you see the end of the year . a sort of wind-up and there was a little concert with items . err a high supper.
And what was what was a high supper?
Sandwiches and cake and lemonade. Lemonade was a real treat.
Did you buy it in bottles?
Yes I think so uff they used to get in flagons . they used to have a err with a a marble in the top . a lemonade bottle . and you ma marble was pushed down the way you opened it - it was pushed down it was caught in a little shoulder on the neck of the bottle and they could be returned - and reused - they seemed to have some method of being able to get the marble back into the seal - but then there was a great source of marbles for the games too . sometimes one got broken you could get the marble out [laugh]
So would you rather get the marble or would you rather get the money?
Oh, you'd probably rather get the money - umm - and you it was frowned upon to err break bottles about the school. You didn't do that. [Laugh]
I was wondering what did you wear to school?
What a mother told me. [Laugh] No there was no uniform you had to have an apron and a cap for cooking classes. and the boys had to have a big bag apron made of sugar-bag . err with a with a big pocket in front for their woodwork . but otherwise you just wore suits or jerseys - I had to wear boots in wet weather and I hated boots - but they were considered warmer [laugh] - when the others were wearing shoes but the quite a number wore boots.
{And were they?}
{lace-up} boots
Oh, they were lace-ups they weren't buttoned?
No they were lace-up boots.
And you said something about wearing um pinafores
Oh that was when I was little - we always we didn't wear pinafores at school . and at ah primary school - well you might have had a pinafore in the infant room - when you were doing things with chalk un . I don't remember that really . but there was no uniform . you wore what you what you had . jerseys and warm dresses in the winter . and stockings . black stockings usually [laugh] and they u even at highschool it was black stockings and sometimes you'd get a little hole in the toe . our favourite trick was to ink our leg . so that it didn't show the hole - you just put a nice dob of ink . you hoped your stocking wouldn't slip round
And how did you um keep your stockings up?
Garters or suspenders.
Did they ever fall down?
[Laugh] There was one time they had a drill display and it was it was to be held out of doors in the ah school playground and the err the team had been practicing doing fancy exercises to music which was provided by the school pipe and drum band . and I was doing and mother had made me put on an extra pair of bloomers because it was cold and the elastic gave way . and I was doing jumping exercises and I could feel these outer bloomers slipping [laugh] and of course the band boys saw it too and they they could hardly play their flutes [laugh] - I was never so embarrassed . and my family said they never . they could never hear the tune they were playing . the the Keel Row without thinking [laugh] of this white garment slowly slipping down my leg as I was doing the jumping exercise - mother and dad everybody was there you see parents were all there [laugh] it was held in the evening and so there was a floodlights on too at Kaikara School . oh dear that was
Did they go all the way down your legs?
[Laugh] I don't ever remember. I think must have been. They must have reached my ankles. About the end of the show and I was able to grab them up.
At least you managed to keep your end up and not.
I didn't run out of the err the thing but I can still see some of the boys [laugh] it must have been hard for them to keep their . to play the flute and laugh they couldn't[laugh] - I think that was one of my most embarrassing moments
Oh I can imagine
And I held that up against mother whenever she said to put extra clothes on . well I'm not putting on extra things unless I'm sure of them
?So I was wondering if you could tell me what sort of underwear did you wear
Um usually err - homemade ones me mo with . warm ones on top . you wore little linen or cotton ones underneath . at least I did . and um . this because it was night and it was a chilly night and I had to put the extra ones on . they were white ones that I warm ones that I had to wear on top of course they showed up . we were all in white dresses
And did you wear, I know some people used to wear, liberty bodices?
Yes I used to wear ah a liberty bodice . that was what your suspenders was were attached to
And what was the libery bodice like?
Something like err . it was just like a little um vest . with no sleeves and they buttoned. They were usually made of expandable material . and someti we used to have um bloomers under bloomers that buttoned at the side with a placket . and they would button on to your liberty bodice the under ones . the warm ones on top . was the elastic . those ones that slipped off [laugh]
And did that happen often that sort of thing
That was the only time in my life. That's why I remember it I suppose. I was never so covered with confusion
I was wondering could you were just telling me before about you know you used to wear pinafores when you were little could you tell me about that again
They were err white err thing that you ju just like a pinafore with a a sort of a wide shoulder and so they usually had a bit of embroidery round them and you wore dark woollen frocks in the winter to keep you warm or if you had a whi light one you wore the pinafore for protection . but um . they were buttoned at the back . or tied and they were quite pretty actually . they were you see them something like . that would possibly have become a pinafore later. That sort of embroidery. You had you had plainer ones err that you wore at home . then there were fancier ones . I don't think I've got any photographs
And did they have sort of tucks and little bits of lace and things on them
Yes they did . err a sort of a yoke across here and a wide shoulder with a bit of perhaps embroidery on it . that machine you know the embroidery that they have on the bottom of petticoats . and then there'd be a frill round the bottom . and it was either tied twice at the neck and at the waist at the back . it was always tied at the back I remember you had to get somebody to tie up your pinny [laugh]
So you you couldn't really dress yourself if you were wearing them
No. You could get as far as ah but you always had to go and back to somebody. I remember my father . he used to find tying bows quite difficult and sometimes if no-one else was about I'd go and back up to him and. And he always breathed very heavily as he tied the bow. [Laugh]
Was he concentrating?
Yes - and there we we wore had to wear our hair in plaits . if you had course ev most people had long hair . and you wore it plaited for school. Because it wasn't err so many people were supposed to have things in their hair
Did anyone ever get ever get nits at your school
I don't remember. But there were there were cases. That's why we always had to to wear you only wore your hair loose when you were at home or for a party or something like that
And did you have hair ribbons in your hair?
Yes. You would have a hair ribbon at the end of it . it was very similar to what they're wearing now . you know with the plait down the back . and then either one or two plaits . that's made me laugh to see. to see the children. Well the the teenage girls now the varsity people . wearing the same sort of thing as we used to wear . same sort of hair style
And did boys ever go and pull your plaits or anything ?
Oh yes - if you had very - there was one girl that had a wonderful mane of hair and she had two thick long plaits that she could sit on . well that was fair game she they were used as . for the boys were being nasty they'd go and pull them and use them as reins
I mean I've sort of read stories I think of of people pinning girls' plaits behind to the desk behind. Do you remember anything like that?
I have that used to err used to hear st tales of that done but I've I don't never really encountered that at school - but sometimes the plaits the ink we used to have inkwells . the hole in the desk and the ink was poured in . as as required . but sometimes somebody would have plaits that just reached the err we were all tee in tiered seats you see one behind the other in rows up at the back and sometimes the row in front would get a pigtail swiped across accidentally swiped across an inkwell - caused a bit of a mess
Oh, would it dribble everywhere?
Yes. [Laugh] But that didn't happen very often.
And I was wondering do you remember the school journal at school?
Yes - I had some of them. It used to come out every month . and it was err it had some quite interesting it was on topical things mostly or geographical things - the last one I saw was down at Stewart Island somebody had them in. Sheila Natish had provided one of the articles on it and there were little pictures of the err hori o on the margins you know . sketches which she had done . that wou that was since I've I remember seeing that and bringing that to the family's notice that's what we used to read at school - and you had readers at school - you got given it was boring in the extreme . cos always the worst people were had to read aloud . and you'd find yourself [laugh] away ahead of the others sometimes getting to the end of the story and you'd be asked to say the next word but some of the teachers would di so that you were watching . and you hadn't been listening either . quite know where he'd got to but you knew the story . alright . but it was always the worst readers that were given the practice which was a shame I think
And so did they never give the better people {a chance}?
{They} they would . I wouldn't say never . but the wo the bad readers .got more err chance and it was boring for the ones that were better
And what about um do you remember any very poor children going to the Kaikara School
Well there may have been but we I don't remember any social distinction amongst the children
{So you were}
{there were di} ones that were never as clean as others oh she's dirty and you know [laugh] but err other not from um being poor or rich . there were a lot of people used to come up from the um mill workers . you see the Roslyn milleners woollen mills . but they were always a yes . reasonably . there wa there was no class distinction . there was perhaps somebody had to better quality um shoes un - course there was there wasn't the uniform - and you could . oh she's always got a new dress un [laugh] there was sort of ah that sort of social distinction but it it didn't go very deep as far as I remember
So were you allowed to play with anyone you liked or did your mother
No - I we lived in Roslyn and there were my there were friends round about . played with the local people . but they were more of the same group . we were up near the Roslyn Presbyterian . Highgate Roslyn Presbyterian Church .area and they were all much the same . everybody was very level socially . later at secondary school one tended . some of the girls er would go to Archfield or Colomba . but most of us went to hi Girls' Highschool
And what about um school textbooks. Did you have to buy them?
Oh yes. Oo buying the textbooks . I think . my own private theory . you hear stories of the un university library books being so . maltreated . is that the kids have . had been given free textbooks for so long . it might be I may be quite wrong there . they don't really realise that the they are quite costly . the when I first started school you had you kept your books you always covered your books with um paper covers or cloth covers or something like that and then to keep them wo err good enough to sell second-hand the next year
So you had to buy new books every year?
Yes
And did you use a slate when you were little?
Yes, in stand up to standard 2 we used a slate . because that was the war . paper was short you see . you used exercise books occasionally but the slate was for everyday sums and you could make the slate pencil squeak beautifully [laugh] by scribbling on this but you had err a string . a hole in the top of the slate frame and a string attached to it and you kept a rag . on that string and anybody caught using their handkerchief to clean their slate was reprimanded - but you had er you could ha we had a little bottle of water
And would you just pour it over the slate {to clean it}?
{Just} ah damp the rag and rub it over the slate . if you made it too wet you couldn't see the you had to wait till it dried before you could write on it again . and there were slate pencils you got so many for a penny . we had to buy those
And later on did you have to buy books to write in as well?
Yes. Exce they didn't have cop I think they had copybooks . you may have seen some of the . when I was err in the earlier stages of school but then everybody didn't have a copybook and you wrote things and then you graduated to ink . after a certain time but you had a a pen dipped in the inkwell you see . otherwise you used to be blow the ink sometimes liked to blow paper balls along you see and see who could get them into the inkwell . and sometimes they'd get too close and the ink would all splatter up their faces . great hilarity.
Did it stay on their faces or did they wash it off?
Oh they could they were sent out to wash it [laugh] - yes there were lighter moments too
And I was just going to ask you a bit more about games in the playground and I was. did you have a hoop
At home but I don't remember ever having a hoop - I wou badly wanted a hoop and the specially one that had the attached err wire handle but we used to have just a hoop with um err stick . and you hit it as you bowled along . can I go for a bowl of the hoop . my brother used to say . he and his friend Jimmy Armstrong used to go out for a b round the block a bowl of their hoop
And did you do that as well?
Yes I used to go sometimes.
And oh just get back to school again and I was wondering how old were you when you left Kaikara Valley School.
Err it wasn't Kaikara Valley School it was Kaikara School {up on the hill}
{Kaikara School}
Mmm there was no school in the valley - we I was - I was dux of Kaikara School dux girl . and I was about 12 13 - yes I must have been my birthday's in October so I must have might have been between 12 and 13 when I left
And so were you always um top of the class
No I varied . I was just lucky [laugh] we had exams . regular ex every term there would be exams which were kept and assessed . and then of course you had to there was proficiency exam . you got a proficiency certificate when you left . err when you went through the sixth standard . and if you didn't get that you were hard-pushed to get a job . some of some of them were not able to . but there was a reasonable standard you had to be able to read . reasonably un - and then that was you had to have that io the the c err scholarship that you could si sit in in so many of the err err ones that made the top grade at 6th standard sat for scholarship and the few . got it I think an another boy and I both got scholarships. You got five pounds a year
Oh was that to go to high school
Yes
And what was the scholarship exam like
It was quite daunting . you had to get do sit it down at university . and I remember mother coming down . it was a real . university exam atmosphere and of course you it was all strange pe surroundings and I remember mother bringing my lunch down . you had two days . just solid three-hour . three two-hour papers in each of the two days . and they came down and um .yes it was really err a a junior type of university exam which made the atmosphere . quite daunting really
It must have been hard when you were only 12.
Yes, but we were up at Dunback for holidays when the results came out and we'd been visiting some one of the neighbours and I remember I had it come on to rain and they lent us coats to go home and I was returning the coats and this neighbour had got the m the paper and the scholarship list was up [laugh] and I can remember going back home . back to the cottage we were staying in yelling at the top of my voice I won the scholarship . mum thought I was I did something that I'd slipped I got a stone in my foot. She thought I was calling out. She thought I was running very briskly . to have a stone in my foot
So were they really excited when you got the scholarship?
Oh they were . quite excited mmm . it was . it w meant that as father my father's salary was err under five pounds a week . so it was really quite err . quite a sum I went and attended a dancing class . you were allowed . there was no ties to it . you could spend . as you err. any way you wished . but I went to err dancing class
And so was it ballroom dancing or
Yes ballroon dancing
And how wa were there many scholarships over the whole country
Yes . and funnily enough when we went to highschool to be err err enrolled there was a gi a little girl I was with my mother and there was a waiting in the corridor sitting on opposite sides and this girl and I both took a liking to each other . she was with an older sister who was at varsity. Because they lived her father was headmaster of a country school. And the she she'd topped Otago. If in the scholarship we were all in in the err found ourselves all in the group. You know I've remained friends . there were two there was another gi girl . we st still write. Regularly to each other . and err Doris is now she's with her husband up in err Bay of Islands . in a retirement village . and the other one Betty Holt . she did she was qu quite active in the um NCW. She was in err international affairs and we've re remained friends we still go go and visit each other and pick up just exactly where we left off
Oh now when you were talking about having exams every year . I was just wondering were there any children who err couldn't pass the exams and so were quite old in a {a standard}.
Yes there were. There were some err quite older ones and I. One boy in particular who was he couldn't do sums and he turned into a very successful farmer.
But was it the sums that just kept him {back}.
{It was} is is it was kept back for that and his spelling and English wasn't all that hot either. But the he was bigger than the rest and he was a very good footballer. And he turned into a ... he ended up better than some of the more academic ones.
And do you do you remember the inspectors coming round to the school?
Yes. We were all on our best behaviour when the inspectors came in. We didn't realise that they were inspecting the teachers, not the kids. [Laugh]
What did you think they might do to you?
Oh no ther nothing we cos we thought it might hinge on our ah our end of year results might be. Iit might have something to do with that . but it was really the teacher's qualifications . seeing that the children had received eloquat adequate instruction . and their work was up to standard . they had to have the you always had to have your exercise. We had to have home exercise books were always open for inspection . by the inspector . some of them were qu quite err tell you a funny story or an anecdote an . I don't remember being terrified of them.
And did you decorate the classroom. You know put flowers and things in it?
Oh we always took a flower. If the teacher was popular she got a little bouquet . of some sort . there was they were kept fresh
What about the male teacher?
The male teacher was quite keen too . they were both Mr Kilk and Mr Matheson were appreciative of flowers .and they liked . some of the girls would they did the men didn't do the arranging . but err there were always fresh flowers on the table in in school . and Mr Kilk he had . he had good nice pictures round the schoolroom. And we learnt years afterwards he used to be able to tell if anyone misbehaved in in if you were supposed to sit like this you see.
With your arms folded?
With your arms folded so and if anyone started fooling. He wouldn't be looking at . and he'd . we were mystified . that he always knew and was able to. now so and so none of that . and it turned out that he had these pictures arranged so that he could see the whole class
Oh did they have glass fronts?
Yes, they had glass fronts. [Laugh] Just the ordinary glass but he could see anybody misbehaving [laugh] in the pict he said he had eyes in the back of his head. [Laugh]
Oh that was pretty tricky of him wasn't it?
Wasn't it! [Laugh] And it was just a warning. He knew.
And oh I was wondering. Do you remember your first day at school?
Err. - I don't remember the first day. I could read when I went to school. Mother had taught me to read a little. The first books. And so I was not with the infants. I was in a lower standard one so to speak. And it was very st . I don't remember the first day at primary school but I remember the first day at Naseby School. Because .ah I was in standard two up there.
Oh can you tell me about that?
The we m mother had to go up there for 6ix months you see. And there weren't so many people at Naseby and we were regarded as a nine days' wonder going to the to my brother was starting school for the first time . and he was um rather rotund for his age . five years old . but I can remember being being very much in charge of him . and he . somebody baited him . and also the pa the um . the some of the children we were townies you see and they sort of ganged up on us a bit . and would stop us going home for lunch cos a lot of them took their lunch I think coming from the country . and they'd make us late getting back and then we were late for school . so mother didn't want to get embroiled with the parents and the children . she said well you know where the policeman lives . she said why don't you tell the policeman. He he's supposed to keep order. So the next day I took my little brother . when they ganged up and the pe a whole crowd of gaping students err children at the gate. I marched up to the policeman's door and got him at his lunch. And said they wouldn't let us passed to go to school. He came out . and his son happened to be in my class. Well from that day on I used to get posies and things from the son in standard two. [Laugh]
What was his name?
Mr Lairns. There was somebody there. Now I remember the policeman saying cos I it really took some courage I thought well I've I've got to do it . so I took my little brother by the hand and marched him up to the . and apparently I my our name was we were absolutely accepted after that
Was that because you'd been brave?
I don't know whether it or what it was?
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